[Sticky] Final gameplan

Have printed off 5 copies of the plan, so, I'll hand them out next saturday.

Having spoken to Guy, he may not be on site until 2030 - 2100hrs on the friday with the keys.

Can he post them to one of us? Mind you, it's not vital that we get the cars off the road.

S

Quick question prompted by Webby.

If captives have the chance to escape, then they should get to the RV....but how will they get their kit and weapon back?

There are lots of questions being asked about stealing German weaponry or affecting an escape with hidden weapons.

I've just told people that if they are captured and have the chance to escape they should just leg it and not try to be all movie-star heroic by pulling grenades from their pants.

Better to escape alive than die in a hail of fire IMHO.

NB: I really don't think ANYONE will be able to escape if they get captured. Not with Chommers around....

They can't pull any sort of hidden weapon, disarmed is disarmed.

I'd say turning a guard's gun on himself is perfectly valid (I did exactly that to Craig at Alsos). Clearly wrestling to the ground to get a weapon ain't on but if a guard leaves his rifles propped against a tree that's fair game. I have briefed the Germans on prisoner security so the Germans have been warned...

No, I've made it clear that disarmed is disarmed.

OK, how about they can use the guards weapon against him, but then must leave it if they run for it.

My main issue with escape is that if people get away, they are then unarmed. So how do the Germans get confiscated weapons back to them? Shall we arrange a drop point for equipment?

It's in Petes rules:
A captured allied player must hand over maps/intelligence and is to be classed as “disarmed” (this prevents over zealous searching and the gay hiding of weapons down pants). He is taken back to German HQ for “interrogation”. Once there, he will then have a sandbag/sack placed over his head. This is an opportunity for the Germans to impart some “fear factor” by prodding with weapons, taunting, firing off questions, etc. NO PHYSICAL BRUTALITY! Unload the prisoners magazines into a bag marked with their name. After 1 hour, an organizer (no players) will take the prisoner off a hundred metres or so into the woods, make them kneel down and cock a pistol behind the prisoner. After a brief pause, to let the prisoner crap themselves, remove the sandbag and give the prisoner back his kit and unloaded weapon & magazines and then release them (it is then up to them to escape & evade back to their HQ). A blank firer might be nice for this, as a single pistol shot ringing out and the organiser walking back alone will certainly give some atmosphere.

Yes, but that doesn't address what should happen in the event of the captive making a run for it without their kit. We do need to think about it, however unlikely it is to successfully achieve!

All we are depriving them of is their ammo, I didn't think we were depriving them of possessions any more?
There is a slight element of confusion I'll agree, at least in my mind.

1) Original plan was remove gun and magazines. When player is released (or escapes) he has nothing. Possessions are later deposited at a designated spot for recovery.

2) However, this seems to be down to removing ammo from magazines only now. Which means he must return to a base to 'rearm'.

I'd say if we aren't removing arms now then there is little point in going to the trouble of removing ammo either - since they are 'disarmed' anyway.

The plan is still to remove weapons and ammo. This from Pete in the Allied Section:

So Pete, do we hand over all concealed weapons on capture? Do we get to keep our primary weapons but with all our bbs confiscated?

No need to hand over any concealed weapons, just consider them to have been found and removed. Your main weapon and magazines will be taken from you and unloaded. You may get them back at a later point.

So we do need to think about what to do if people manage to escape. Will they be limited to secondary weapons only?

Also, worth discussing, what if a radio man is captured? Will the keep the Jed Set when re-inserted? My feeling is that they should.

That's what I mean about slight confusion, hence your question.
Removing weapons (or indeed ammo) is academic since they can't use them anyway until they return to base. And it leads to a logistic problem of who is responsible for depositing kit back into game, and where.

I'd say a radio set is the key prize for the Germans - it was back in '44! If we nab one on Saturday you can have it back on Sunday (new drop), otherwise its down to legwork for you. * edit

The whole point of this is that Jeds and SAS do everything possible to avoid capture - that's why the consequences are so dire. I fear we will end up with ninja Webby (and others) being a 'hero' and jeopardising any hope of a successful mission. They really must get the idea that if they get caught the game's up.

* edit: We could always put it back in-game for a recovery sub-mission?

Sorry, my typo.

I meant to say "I think they shoudn't".

Absolutely agree that the consequences should be dire. An hour out of the event at least, then having to regroup with your section? That should be cause enough to avoid capture.

With Webby and Josh on about how they will affect their daring escape, I'm wondering what the situation will be. Webby's in my team, so I'm hoping to keep him on a short lead. I toyed with the idea of him being radio man, but I've given that to Wildfire. I guess we'll probably need to rotate that around any, to avoid people flaking out like Berties.

Heh, you're not kidding, I can't lift the box with four radio packs in it! Might be best to share the load.

Heh! Pete's going to have a lot to get through when he next signs on.

Interesting point from Stu though. I'm not keen for Allies to kill prisoners outright for tactical advantage. It just wouldn't have happened in real life.

However, it does raise a point for both Jeds and SAS. In the unlikely event that they are careless enough to be 'killed' outright (by grenade, knife kill or cumulative lost lives) what's the procedure? Are they still available for capture? If so fine.

If not, what are they to do?

I've already told the Germans not to grenade enemy unless there is no alternative since dead allies are no use to us, prisoners are a priority. I can't see any possibility of us making knife kills!

I can't see any point in allies taking prisoners, what are you going to do with them, it will waste precious man hours and reveal your location!.

F**k me, I go to work for 8 hours and come back to this!

They aren't "killed", simple. They are considered to be incapacitated beyond the point of 1st aid.

I've also made it abundantly clear that they should consider themselves to be restrained in some way, even though they won't be. If anyone starts grappling with guards, I'll have strong words with them! The post I made about getting their kit back "at some point" was purely fo rthe punters benefit. We organisers know that a captured player will get his kit back after he is taken off into the woods and shot.

All perfectly simple really, no need to get confused at this late stage!

Could you re-read the above questions carefully, we are just seeking clarity.

Fine and dandy.

I'm not talking about us taking prisoner Chommers. Now way is that going to happen!

Pete, there is just a small issue that if someone affects escape from their captors they'll be weaponless. Are we going to come up with any contingency about how they get kit back if that happens?

I'm tempted to just say that if anyone does escape, it's up to them how they re-arm and re-group!

Righty-ho, having read through all of that lot, I'll add that I reckon a captured radio should stay captured, depriving the allies of vital equipment for coordinating tasks, just as captured personnel deprive them of valuable manpower.

Also, having a sandbag on their head will make any idea of escape a bit pointless, as, the sensory depravation of that confuses people. If they make any attempt to remove the sandbag, the guards should just shoot them. I only mentioned that they could try to escape to build some excitement! In reality, they will stand no chance of escape if the guards are even remotely switched on. When they are marched off to be shot, the organiser doing that can just tell them to make their way to their last ERV and put into action the E&E plan.

The consequences of capture should indeed be dire. The loss of manpower, intel and radio equipment will underline this. To make things easier, let's drop the idea of unloading the mags of captured players.

Super.

Having seen hopeless guarding at Alsos it has been drummed into the Germans how important security is (I've outlined possible lapses, I hope the message has got through!)

I've revised briefings on grenade/mortar/knife kills. It was the word "kill" in the rules that confused, elsewhere it mentions only incapacity - should really have said a grenade/mortar/knife moves you to incapacitated with no opportunity to be medic'd.

This means it is definitely in our interest to use grenades/mortar to knock you off